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Kenna Hilburn is the Senior Vice President of Product Operations at Marigold and a mom of two. She’s a friend and Advisor to neli, and we’re thrilled to feature her in this series. Watch the full interview below or check out the written Q&A.

Can you tell us a little about yourself?

I started my career in television and film production. I wanted to be a broadcast news anchor. Basically, I wanted to be Katie Couric. Coming out of college, I got into online video content creation. I ran the video program for Petco.com and then had the opportunity to go and work for a technology startup, which led me to where I am today, where I’ve been working in SaaS, B2B operations, general management, customer success, and now product operations.

I’ve been checking all the boxes for all the different functions, basically making myself out to be a really well-rounded generalist in my career. In my current role, I get the opportunity to support our chief product officer in making sure that the entire global R&D organization is running efficiently and smoothly and that we’re able to deliver best-in-class products to our customers.

I have two kids. I have a seven-year-old girl named Clarke and a five-year-old boy named Deacon.

Would you consider yourself a super ambitious person? How have you viewed your career in relation to yourself?

When I was younger, I had big dreams and big hopes. And then, as I made my way into adulthood, I started to question what it was that I really wanted to do and why I wanted to do those things. What were my motivations behind wanting that career for myself?

And the answer that I came to was that I felt like I had something to prove and wanted to achieve these things to show other people that I was worthwhile and could do something great. When I realized that, it didn’t feel good. It didn’t feel like the right intrinsic motivator to continue to go after these things, which is why I took a step back and pivoted my career and ultimately ended up in software technology. And during that time, I just wanted to like what I did every day at work. I didn’t really know what it was that I wanted to do.

I just kept putting one foot in front of the other and following opportunities as they were presented to me. And then, I was given the opportunity to lead a team. That’s when I felt like it really clicked. This is what I love. This is what I feel like I’m really naturally good at doing. This is what I can bring to the world and the workforce—creating these environments where people can thrive at work. And that’s where my ambition clicked back in and has motivated me to be on this trajectory that I’ve been on ever since.

Where were you in your career journey with your first pregnancy?

I was given the opportunity to lead a team, which is something that isn’t lost on me. Becoming a mom and becoming a leader at work, those two things happened at the same time for me, which is rare and special. I don’t really know which one informed the other, but it was a very empowering time. I was 34 weeks pregnant when our CEO approached me and said he wanted to give me the opportunity to leave the team. It felt like, wait, women don’t get promoted right when they’re about to go out on maternity leave. That’s not a thing. You know I’m leaving, right?

They were like, yes, we know. We fully intend for you to take your time. Don’t call. Don’t write. We want you to have that time. But when you come back, we’re going to do this thing, and we want you to lead this team.

I went on maternity leave, and knowing that I was going to come back and have this greater role and responsibility was empowering. Knowing the company needed me to operate in this capacity gave me something to be excited about. Becoming a mom, I realized, wow, I can do really hard things—like carry a baby for nine months and go through labor and then not sleep for four months and still get up every morning and take on the world.

Those two things together were really empowering. I feel like it allowed me to settle into the woman that I am and the woman that I was growing into, and also settle into the leader that I think I always was on the inside.

How did you experience the transition from maternity leave to coming back to work in a new role? Was it stressful?

I was already working from home. My husband was working outside of the home. We’d never intended on one of us being a stay-at-home parent, but when I was on maternity leave, my heart just changed because envisioning taking Clarke somewhere outside of the home for daycare was hard. I just didn’t want to do that. So, we also made the decision while I was on maternity leave that my partner was going to leave his job to be a stay-at-home dad. That way, we didn’t have to shuttle her around, and she could be there, and I could be there, and I could work, but then I could nurse, and I could be a mom, and I could step away and hold my baby and then go back and be present at my job.

That gave me a lot of peace of mind in coming back. I felt like I really did have the best of both worlds. I could be fully present at work because I knew my baby was in the other room safe and okay, and I could go and hug her and squeeze her and get my fill and then go back and be a woman at work.

I realize most women don’t have that privilege. They have to go and drop their three-month-old baby off at childcare. And that’s brutal, and then so hard to come back and be present at work because you’re thinking about your kid that’s somewhere else. I didn’t have to do that. And I think that gave me a lot of opportunity to just really pour myself into work during the season where I was advancing in my career.

What’s your take on flexible work and remote work, and how it helps women advance in their careers?

I think as women, we have an advantage in that we’re really good at multitasking. I think we are better at home than we are in the workplace. We are more productive, not only in work but also at home for our families, being able to have that flexibility. And I don’t know if flexibility is even the right word. It’s the opportunity to be multi-threaded in your day. Like I can be on a meeting, and then I can run and do school pickup, and I can be back 10 minutes later and pull out chicken for dinner, and we can do all of those things and excel at all of those things at the same time.

Part of me hates this question because men never get asked this question, but, with that multi-threaded approach, how do you balance motherhood and an accelerating career?

I don’t know if balance is the right word because some days are out of balance. I think it’s just more of, what does the day look like? Some days, I’m on calls at 6:30 in the morning. I get up, I get myself ready, and I get into my office before anybody else in my house is awake. The morning stuff happens; the kids go to school, and I don’t even see them until the afternoon when they come home. But that’s not every day. And then other days, when I don’t have an early meeting, I can do an early morning yoga class in the house, and then I can get the kids out of bed, and then I can do breakfast, and I can be a part of that. And so, to me, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

I’m there enough for me and for our family. And I think my kids are pretty flexible as a result. It’s never like, mom does this thing every single day, and if mom ever needs a vacation or takes a break and she doesn’t do these things, I don’t know how to function. We are agile and flexible and can do what needs to be done every day.

What’s something that you wish you had known with that first transition coming back? Or what advice would you give to moms?

I think the best advice that I got early on after I had Clarke was that you are just one nap away from feeling better than you feel right now. If you’re just completely exhausted, then take a nap. Step away.

When I was preparing for labor I was told, when you’re in a contraction, don’t think about how long you’ve been in labor and how much longer you have to go until this baby gets out. Think, what do I need to do to get through this contraction? And to me, this is the best life advice. Any time you’re in any type of pain and suffering, don’t think about the end of the line.

Think about what you need to get through this moment. I was able to pull that mindset through to the sleep deprivation period. Don’t think about when you’re ever going to get a full night’s sleep again. You’ll lose your mind. Think about getting to three o’clock when you can have a nap and you’ll feel better. And so the question becomes, how do you incrementally take care of yourself versus thinking about the whole picture? A nap is enough to get you to that next thing that you have to go and do, and then there’ll be another nap or, hopefully, a sleep coming on the other side of that. So, really, just thinking moment by moment, hour by hour.

Where were you in your career for your second?

I was leading the team I had been given with my first. So it had been like two years, and I’d actually built the team, hired a handful of people, and had started to raise up different levels of leadership. So I went from just being handed the team to having a team and then having a next line that I could pass the baton and give somebody the opportunity to lead the team while I was out. I love giving people an opportunity to step up and grow while you step out for a little bit.

How did you prepare your team? When do you have that conversation with your boss and then with your team?

So, for me, I had conversations early because I was really sick for both of my pregnancies. I needed my employer to know that I wasn’t 100 percent. I was very, very sick. I think you have to let people know if you’re gonna be at a reduced capacity. So that way, other people can step up and pick up the slack for you.

In general, as a leader, I’m always thinking about who’s rising up under me, behind me, who are the people that are gonna have my job one day. And so I think I knew right away who that person was going to be and started preparing them as soon as possible.

I think the more time that people have the opportunity to envision themselves in a role, the more prepared they’re gonna be and the more time they have to ask questions and make sure that they have what they need to be successful during that time. To me, the transition starts early.

How did you experience your team as a leader? Were they supportive and helpful? What was that relationship like?

We really supported each other through big life milestones and transitions. I was the first woman to go out on maternity. They had to create a maternity leave policy for me because one didn’t exist prior to me, and there were several women who bore the fruits of that after me.

As a leader, how do you manage team dynamics when someone is pregnant or has a reduced capacity, or is going out on leave? What’s your advice to other leaders?

I think you have to give people grace. And I say this because I was so, so sick and lived it. I think that I’m a high-performing person, but if it’s the hierarchy of needs, when I’m pregnant, I am baseline, just physical survival. I can’t even progress up the pyramid. So I think that gave me the perspective of when somebody is going through something, whether it’s health or family, whatever it is, you have to look at the person’s performance outside of that circumstance, and you use that as the bar. You give them the time and the space to contribute what they can during this season. But you can’t hold people to the same standards as when they’re operating within normal circumstances or health. Because people are people first, and humanity happens, and you have to make room for that, and doing the best thing for the person and the human being is, in the end, the best thing for the company.

I think I’m a good example of that. I was at a reduced capacity for most of my pregnancy. I was still given the opportunity to lead a team, which is amazing. I wouldn’t say that those were my strongest six months, pushing up to the moment that I was promoted. But thankfully, our CEO saw the work that I’d done before that. And he made an investment in me. And I know, I am so confident that I came back from maternity leave and I returned on that investment for the company. They were looking at my performance overall and not just how I was operating during this specific life event. So I think you bet on people. You bet on and believe in people and what they show you they’re capable of under normal circumstances. And then when things—life events—come up, you have to give them the space and the grace to get through that season. And you will benefit from that. They will benefit from that. Your company will benefit from that on the other end of that thing. You have to look at the full picture and the long game and not just that you’re not getting the same value out of this person that we got previously because they’re going through this thing.

What advice would you give to employers and teams to better support pregnant moms, moms with newborns, and moms of kids in general?

I think one of the best things that my company gave to me was not only the opportunity to grow in my career at the same time that I was becoming a mom, but also putting together a progressive maternity leave policy. At the time, they gave three months of full pay, which in 2015 or 2016 was a big deal.

I think giving women an on-ramp into motherhood is so important. There’s enough that they have to do and enough that they have to worry about. To not have to worry about their job or their income or their benefits or their health insurance means so much. Provide that peace to women while they’re going through this season. There is a return on investment there because they will come back better when they’re ready.

I think women who have to go back to work because they don’t have an adequate maternity leave policy and they need the income are coming back diminished because they’re not ready. They’re probably not sleeping enough yet. They’re probably like still very much in the fog of that fourth trimester. And so giving women enough runway to get out of that and get back to more of their normal non-postpartum self is better for the woman, it’s better for the baby, it’s better for the family unit, and it’s better for your company because you’re gonna get somebody that’s ready to come back and start performing at a higher level than someone that comes back prematurely because they have no other option.

Looking at the long game instead of the short game, doing the right thing for the person is always the right thing for the business in the long run. There’s so much emphasis on the bottom line, and we’re looking at the wrong metrics if we want to make long-term investments and have long-term success in the health of our businesses.

Join us for a better future for working moms

Here at neli, we’re building a community to help working moms thrive—specifically in the first year after they give birth. If you’re interested in contributing to that mission let’s chat. There are a million ways you can help, and we’d love to partner with you.